1994 Rover 414Sli

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Vulgalour
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Re: 1994 Rover 414Sli

#406 Post by Vulgalour » Mon Aug 06, 2018 6:32 pm

Glad I could inform and entertain! There's not much I don't know on this car now.

Hey look, an update!

Today I finally got to start work on the Rover. It's been a long old wait to get here. I started by emptying everything out of the car and then cracked on working out what order I needed to remove the various trims and what I could get away without removing. First was to remove all of the boot trims, since they all overlap and join onto bits I need to remove anyway. The two braces that support the saloon rear seat back unbolted easily except for one bolt that sheared. This isn't a problem as that particular bolt isn't needed for the folding seats.

Image20180806-02 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr

Front seats were easy to remove, suprisingly so for a modern car, and the instructions for disarming the seat belt pretensioners were clear and easy to follow too. The seats themselves were one of the easiest sets I've ever removed from a car, so that was a satisfying thing. With the rear seats, boot trims, and rear seat support braces removed, even more broken glass appeared as did quite a few dead insects. The mounting points for the folding seat brackets all appear to be in place in the car already so it looks like it's going to be a very easy job to swap them over.

Image20180806-03 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr

The saloon carpet is a shorter than the hatchback carpet as normally the rear seat is never moved. Fortunately, the carpet I dyed is from a hatchback so it will cover that bodywork you can see here that was under the rear seat.

Image20180806-01 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr

Down the side of the driver's seat, wedged between the seat runner and carpet, was some treasure. There was also an old twisted barley sweet, which wasn't really treasure. It's a spot you can't get to with the seats in place, or even see really.

Image20180806-04 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr

I've got the door cards, centre console, and carpet to remove now. Once that's done I can get the car on the lift and get the petrol tank off so I can weld in the captive nuts for the folding rear seat base. On the saloon, they didn't add the captive nuts or drill the plate it goes through, the shell is otherwise identical. I didn't have enough time to remove the rest of the interior I needed to today, so instead I hit the arch with tools to see how bad the rust was. Happily, it's actually a smaller repair than I expected and the repair panel I've got is much larger than I need for this area.

Image20180806-05 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr

More when I do some.
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1980 Austin Princess 2 1700 HL
1994 Rover 414 SLi

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Re: 1994 Rover 414Sli

#407 Post by ROVER-25X » Tue Aug 07, 2018 6:49 am

Well get doing some then ! :laughing2
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Re: 1994 Rover 414Sli

#408 Post by Vulgalour » Wed Aug 08, 2018 6:34 pm

I did some more. First job was to finish stripping out the interior and to do that I had to start with the centre console. Mine differs from the HBOL because it's got the higher spec armrest centre console. To remove this you pop off a little plastic cover (annoying cigarette burn on mine) to get to the two bolts at the front.

Image20180808-01 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr

Then lever out the insert for the arm rest which allows access to the bolts hidden in there, specifically the outer two to the left of the second photograph. With those bolts undone, the whole piece just slides back and off.

Image20180808-02 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr

Image20180808-03 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr

Then I removed the front half of the centre console which is held in with two easy to find screws on either side, and the gear knob that you just unscrew, before lifting the whole panel away. This gives easy access to the carpet which can then be removed from the car. With that removed, it reveals some very dense sound proofing foam which explains why the cabin is so much more refined than you might expect. I noticed the passenger front one was a bit wet There's no obvious sign of water ingress here and it's not a huge amount of water, but it's obviously coming in from somewhere. You can just about see it if you look carefully, quite difficult to photograph.

Image20180808-04 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr

That said, the floors were exceptionally clean inside, I was a little scared I might find some rot hiding but they actually still look factory fresh which I'm delighted about. I also found a very shiny 1p coin dated 1994, the year of the car's manufacture, underneath the carpet underlay. Coincidence, or did someone put it there when the car was built?

Image20180808-05 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr

Because of the water in the footwell and the shocking state of my windscreen I decided to use some of my savings to get it replaced. I didn't bother going through the insurance because there's no saving to be had, my excess is about the same as a new screen fitted. I'm pretty sure this car has had a windscreen in its past too and I'm wondering if it could be letting a bit of water in. I've gone with a local fitter that did Mike's Supra windscreen and they did such a good job I trust they'll be well able to do this one. To help them, and so I can give it a clean up, I removed the trim that goes along the bottom of the windscreen and the wiper arms. I'm going to freshen the wiper arms up since they're looking a bit grey.

Image20180808-06 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr

The door cards were all removed too. I'll be salvaging the wood trim from them because the wood on my new cards doesn't match my dashboard wood. All of my original interior is very sun-bleached, including the wood, so I'll stain and varnish the original inserts anew so they all match properly.

Image20180808-07 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr

Then Mike and I got the car on the lift and prepared to remove the fuel tank. What horrors would be hiding, we wondered.

Image20180808-08 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr

After undoing the tank straps, there's an assortment of pipes to disconnect on the passenger side of the car and an awkward electrical connector on the driver's side. Happily, the tank was empty enough that it didn't spill more than a few drops of fuel and wasn't too heavy.

Image20180808-09 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr

The tank removed it revealed that the underside of the car was as exceptionally clean here as everywhere else. There's some minor surface corrosion on the exhaust side that I'll clean and paint and then all of this will get a good smear of underseal to keep it this way.

Image20180808-10 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr

Image20180808-11 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr

Image20180808-12 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr

Likewise the tank is in reasonable condition and will also get a clean and fresh underseal where required.

Image20180808-13 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr

The last job of the day was to load the Princess with all the plastic trim so I can clean it at home. I also found what I hope is the source of the occasional odd smell in the car which is that something had been spilled down the side of the centre console a long time ago, before I owned the car, and got into the carpet in a spot you can't clean without removing the seats.

Image20180808-14 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr

Next visit to the unit should see the tank refitted, Friday the new windscreen is fitted, and I could be ready for new MoT as early as the end of next week.
Current Fleet:
1980 Austin Princess 2 1700 HL
1994 Rover 414 SLi

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Re: 1994 Rover 414Sli

#409 Post by Vulgalour » Thu Aug 09, 2018 6:53 pm

On the left, an original saloon seat brace. On the right, a cut-down hatchback seat brace. They're similar enough in the right places that they are interchangable with some jiggery-pokery of the hatchback piece. The modified hatchback piece also bolts into the existing fixing points in the saloon body, as I hoped it would.

Image20180809-01 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr

With the modified brackets fitted, you'd be hard pressed to see what I've done, which is perfect.

Image20180809-04 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr

For the seat back bracket, we had a look under the car and found that two of the captive nut holes are pre-drilled in the strengthening plate which made lining up for the other two holes really easy, especially since we had the piece cut from the donor hatchback to help make sure all the holes were in the proper places. This was a pleasant surprise as this was potentially one of the more difficult bits to get right.

Image20180809-02 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr

Once drilled out, the bolts could be dropped through from the top, bolted from below (I hadn't welded the nuts in yet, since we were trial fitting) and the seat catches aligned properly. Everything fell into place with minimal fettling, it was surprisingly easy.

Image20180809-03 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr

The rear seat base needed two holes drilling for the captive nuts, only afterwards did we realise you can't actually get to the other side of this so instead the holes were made big enough to accept the bolt heads and they'll become captive bolts instead. Alignment on this was also easy since there's cut-outs in the sound-proofing foam in exactly the right place and the seat base sits in the saloon's seat base location perfectly, probably because my suspicion that the shell is identical up to the rear suspension turrets is correct.

Image20180809-05 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr

I didn't get as far as welding in the captive bolts for the seat base today, and only three of the captive nuts decided they wanted to stay welded, so I'll go back and do those tomorrow probably. I also haven't fitted the seat back side pegs yet that serve to allow the seat back to fold down without going all wobbly sideways, but again, that's not too bad a job to do and they look like they'll go straight in on the car easily enough. However, enough fixing points were secured that the seat could be trial fitted and I can say with confidence that you can indeed fit a hatchback seat in a saloon body and it works rather well.

Image20180809-06 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr
Current Fleet:
1980 Austin Princess 2 1700 HL
1994 Rover 414 SLi

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Re: 1994 Rover 414Sli

#410 Post by Paul_1978_yorks » Thu Aug 09, 2018 8:27 pm

Nice work Angyl. Impressed with your determination.
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Re: 1994 Rover 414Sli

#411 Post by 1234dist » Thu Aug 09, 2018 8:52 pm

I don't like it :unsure

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Re: 1994 Rover 414Sli

#412 Post by Vulgalour » Thu Aug 09, 2018 9:37 pm

Image
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Re: 1994 Rover 414Sli

#413 Post by Vulgalour » Thu Aug 09, 2018 9:38 pm

Paul's okay though. He can stay. We like Paul. :P
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Re: 1994 Rover 414Sli

#414 Post by Vulgalour » Fri Aug 10, 2018 5:39 pm

Arrived at the unit a little early than planned today which meant I had some time to do some fettling before the windscreen fitters arrived. They got delayed by an hour so that gave me even more time to fettle, which was fantastic. When they arrived the only seat fitting left to do were the seat base captive bolts, which were quickly done once they'd left. Everything was then given a splash of primer and red-ish paint to keep it all protected. I'm not mega fussed about a beautiful finish on this because it's all covered up and I'd rather it be strong than pretty.

Image20180810-01 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr

As it happens, lining up the seat back dowels onto the bodyshell was really easy. The four captive nuts for the seat back bracket also got painted, but my upside-down welding is so shamefully ugly I've been forced to censor it.

Image20180810-02 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr

I explored the full extent of the rot in the rear arch and it really isnt' too bad. I noticed a bit of a bubble in the textured stone chip on the sill and found it had holed. I'm now undecided as to whether to replace the outer arch in one piece, or two pieces, since there's a substantial piece between the rust holes that's actually perfectly solid.

Image20180810-03 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr

Finally, I didn't get my windscreen fitted today. A windscreen for a Rover 400 was supplied, just the wrong 400, so a correct one has had to be ordered. I've had this issue with other parts on this car, 1994 is the last year before the new shape came out so parts for this car are often listed as parts for that instead. One of the fitters had been having one of those weeks, so this was just another one of those things for him. Fortunately, I'm not in a mega rush to get the screen done, time is on my side for once, though it is slightly annoying that the earlier screen is more expensive. No big deal, it very much needs replacing either way, you can just about make out some of the less bad scratching in this photograph.

Image20180810-04 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr

May not do any more on this over the weekend. Next job is to clean up and underseal the boot floor, and replace the outer rear arch. Once those and the associated painting is done, I can re-install the interior.
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Re: 1994 Rover 414Sli

#415 Post by 1234dist » Fri Aug 10, 2018 7:58 pm

Image
Did this get censored :laughing2

Image
They do make repair panels for these for about £35ea +vat
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Re: 1994 Rover 414Sli

#416 Post by Vulgalour » Fri Aug 10, 2018 8:36 pm

It did. Special feature on my camera. :laughing2 I already have the repair panel I need, bought it ages ago and I'm only now at the point to do the repair. Luckily the little trim piece came off intact since they seem to be gone on a lot of cars and are tricky to source now.
Current Fleet:
1980 Austin Princess 2 1700 HL
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Re: 1994 Rover 414Sli

#417 Post by Vulgalour » Wed Aug 15, 2018 6:31 pm

Got busy with the angle grinder today while waiting for the windscreen fitters to arrive. I decided to chop both the grot and the good metal between the grot out so I could replace the lot in one piece a bit easier. It also meant I could find out if anything was hiding. I was impressed at how solid everything was. The rust at the bottom looks to have been caused where the inner arch (a bit of a mud trap) had rotted through and allowed moisture into the sill. The bit further up the arch started where the arch trim plugs in so I will probably not drill new holes for the trim here and instead chop the legs off the trim and glue it on.

Image20180815-01 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr

I'm not used to the pile of metal cut out to address rust being quite this small.

Image20180815-02 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr

After quite a lot of trimming and checking, over and over, I got the repair panel as close a fit as I could and just before I was due to tack it in place, the windscreen fitters arrived.

Image20180815-03 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr

Removing the old screen was quite a battle, bonded screens do seem to require an awful lot of effort to remove. In seemingly next to no time they'd got the old screen out, the surroun cleaned and the new one in. Instructions are to leave the car alone for 24-72 hours, the longer the better, so the sealant can set properly. Happiily, there was no sign of water ingress when the old screen was removed and no rust problems. The new screen really does highlight just how bad the old one was, even with the marks from fitting it, the new screen is easier to see through than the old screen was at its cleanest.

Image20180815-04 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr

I'm going to leave welding the arch up until next week as it means jacking the car up for access, something of a no-no until the screen sealant has cured. That's fine, I'm not in a rush, and everything is now lined up ready to go for the next phase which is mostly just putting things together at this point.
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Re: 1994 Rover 414Sli

#418 Post by Vulgalour » Sat Aug 18, 2018 7:19 pm

When I got the Rover, you may remember it had a couple of blobby bits on one rear arch. Perfectly normal for an R8, they all rust here. Three years seems like a lot longer ago than it really is.

Image20150721-03 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr

I acquired the panel to fix this quite some time ago and have only now really had both motivation and time to get it done. Not a terrible job, as it happens, and certainly less stressful with the cabin stripped since I'm in no fear of accidentally damaging any nice interior pieces. Both blobs on the arch were fibreglass and it had genuinely stopped things getting any worse even though it didn't look the finest repair in the world. The cause of both of these rust problems are easily resolved, the top blob is down to a design flaw where the legs of the plastic trim trap water where it goes through the outer arch and touches the inner, simply glueing the trim on would prevent this (and is my intention). The lower blob is caused by the inner arches not getting hosed out, dirt and moisture then gets trapped in the inner arches, slowly rots through and allows moisture into the sill, rotting it from the inside. It's a credit to Rover/Honda that these problems take a good twenty years to get to a point where they need repairing, the quality of the metal and the factory protection on these cars seems surprisingly good. At least they do with this car. Anyway, first job to fix this was to cut out the modest amount of rust, as documented last update, and tidy up the inner arch. I had one tiny patch to let in at the bottom which took all of ten minutes to do and then the whole lot was cleaned up and doused in weld-through primer.

Image20180818-01 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr

I checked the fitment on the replacement panel quite a lot since this is a complicated shape and I didn't want to have to try and remake it or order a new panel. Everything appears to line up quite well. Since the eye is drawn to the trim line and the sill-to-door panel gap, those were the areas I focused on most for fit and then massaged the panel where required to get it to fit the best with the other points. It wasn't actually that bad to do, but setting the clamps to hold it without things moving proved quite tricky since there weren't a lot of points you could really hold it in place, especially since I wasn't joddling edges on this repair.

Image20180818-02 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr

Tack, tack, tack. Wait for it to cool. Repeat. Gently tweak where things shifted a little on the door shut part of the arch, tack, tack, tack... this took a while. The metal is thinner than I've been working with so it gets hot really fast compared to what I'm used to. The welder seems to be having a bit of an issue keeping its settings too, the wire speed seemed to wander a little and the power level didn't seem very constant. It has bad days sometimes. That said, it was nice to not be chasing holes like I was on the Princess, the steel is a much better quality and much more predictable, even with a welder that's playing up a bit.

Image20180818-03 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr

About an hour and a half later, I'd got the whole piece in, puddle welded to the sill rail and inner arch, and got busy with the flapwheel. I was very happy that there were no spots I needed to go back over and could see it just needs a little bit of filler before putting the paint down. Only trouble was, I couldn't find the filler and it was too late to go buy some. On getting home I of course found my filler, and Mike told me where the spare stuff was, so that can be tomorrow's job.

Image20180818-04 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr

I finished off by giving everything a splash of primer so I can see where I need to apply the filler for the final stage. Once this is all in proper paint I can get the interior back in and then get the petrol tank back on. After that it's MoT time, which it should sail straight through.

Image20180818-05 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr
Current Fleet:
1980 Austin Princess 2 1700 HL
1994 Rover 414 SLi

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Re: 1994 Rover 414Sli

#419 Post by Rover dave » Sat Aug 18, 2018 7:58 pm

That looks not too bad . :)

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Re: 1994 Rover 414Sli

#420 Post by Vulgalour » Sun Aug 19, 2018 7:22 pm

Cheers, I'm moderately satisfied with it. :)

----

I have been jolly busy today and the Rover looks almost like a proper car again. Very first job was to put the all-important shiny 1994 1p back under the underlay. Now, I don't want to say I'm a superstitious sort, but later on 20p fell out of one of the seats.

Image20180819-01 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr


Bodywork was not going well today. I had problems with the filler curing far too fast and the paint curing far too slow, so that side of things was rather frustrating. It's weatherproof and tidy, which is what matters, but it's certainly not the standard I'm capable of. I'll redo this after I've moved house, I'm not stressing about it now.

Image20180819-02 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr


With the bodywork sorted and the paint eventually dry, I could refit the carpet which was surprisingly easy to do, and the bolt in the back seat which was also very easy to do. All of the boot trims and things have been reinstated too. I do need to trim down the moulded boot trims so they fit the new seat opening, I can't use hatchback ones because the boot on the hatchback is shorter so they don't fit. Rear seat was tested, and it's all functional, and being a 60/40 split-fold will no doubt be handy in the future. The plastic trims that go over the rear arches to the sides of the rear seat need trimming in a couple of spots to clear the parcel shelf and I may need to make a small slice in the bottom to pull the seatbelt through since the seatbelt lower bolts are stuck pretty fast and I don't want to force those since I haven't got spare relevant bolts, nor a tap and die set of the relevant size. Much safer and easier to trim a bit of plastic nobody will ever see.

Image20180819-03 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr


The carpet edges clip onto a pressing on the sill edge with some plastic edging that's part of the carpet. Over the top go the Rover sill trims, and because of the screw placement the fancy higher spec chrome trims are handed left and right. The rear trims are a plain plastic and look the same at a quick glance but they too are handed with a locating peg on the back that sits in a hole in the sill.

Image20180819-04 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr


The centre console trim just slots into place and is held by four self tapping screws, two each side.

Image20180819-05 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr



The arm rest console is slightly more tricky since that's held down with four bolts you have to remove before sliding it into place, and then bolt it down, and then put the cubby insert back in. I reseated the handbrake trim too as that had come adrift at some point. Gearknob was screwed back on, boot/petrol flap release levers reinstated and the foot rest was bolted back down. All of this helped the carpet sit much more flat.

Image20180819-06 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr


Image20180819-07 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr


I removed all of the wooden trim from my old door cards and the trim across the top of the dashboard so I can strip off the old cloudy varnish and refurbish them. This is a job I'm not in a rush to do because they can all be slotted back into place after I've fitted the doorcards, etc. very easily.

Image20180819-08 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr


Image20180819-09 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr


Then on to the tricky job, which was the front seats. When I got the seats I knew one seatbelt pre-tensioner was missing which wasn't a problem as I had a spare on my existing seats. It's a purely mechanical system on these and there's a little tab that you use to deactivate them, surprisingly, the one on the new passenger seat hadn't been deactivated. Anyway, this is the two driver's seats, my worn out velour one on the left and the nicely worn half-leather one on the right. I needed to undo a torx headed bolt that holds the seatbelt thing on, and a 17mm regular bolt that holds the pre-tensioner tube on.

Image20180819-10 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr


Image20180819-11 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr


They put up a bit of a fight to remove, as you might expect of safety equipment, but once off it was a simple matter of bolting them up super tight on the relevant seat and job jobbed ready to keep me in my seat in a crash.

Image20180819-12 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr


With that sorted, I could get both seats in the car. These seats are an absolute doddle to fit even though they're incredibly heavy for their size.

Image20180819-13 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr


Image20180819-14 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr


Then it was time to go home because I was very hungry, so I'll likely finish this job off tomorrow since there's not a great deal left to do now.
Current Fleet:
1980 Austin Princess 2 1700 HL
1994 Rover 414 SLi

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