Gearbox advice 220 turbo
Posted: Sun Jan 12, 2020 10:29 am
Hi all,
Regarding my car, a '94 220 gsi turbo hatch, owned by me since May '97....
I think it may need a gearbox rebuild, as I'm getting noise from what I think is the diff bearing (torsen type A) or the input shaft bearing.This is not certain but it's what I suspect after discussing it with a trusted mechanic ( a VAG specialist, and he has not heard the noise btw ), and from me reading up about it on the web.
The noise has been occurring and worsening over the last 4 or 5 years, mileage wise that equates to 5k miles only of the box's 77k so far.
The symptoms are none other than noise...audible in gears 1 2 and 3 at low speeds....I'm sure it's in all gears but obviously in higher gears the car becomes noisier anyway so the noise as above is drowned out by road/engine noises.
It's like a metallic grinding noise, the best way I would describe it, is it sounds like a brake disc backing plate rubbing , but as above, I suspect a gearbox bearing, reason being, it occurs when in gear and driving, but stops if either the clutch pedal is depressed, or if the gearbox is put into neutral, ie coasting.
The box went in brand new when the car was at 70k, 12k miles after I bought the car, it's a short ratio box, I think a K4 not K7 as originally fitted...possibly intended for a Dunlop Cup car.It was the only one available at the time.It definitely has an X in the box code, which denotes a TorSen diff is fitted, the shorter ratios don't bother me I'm well used to them, but would prefer the original spec ratios.
The car is now on just under 147k.The box, on 77k, has had a very easy life,driven gently, mainly because after the diff broke on the original box, I learned about the weakness in the Torsen, so have tried to ensure this box lasted a very long time, which to be fair it has as regards the TorSen, but now has other issues as above.
The current box, fitted in July '98, was originally filled with mtf-94,and has had 3 oil changes over the years,all mtf-94,the last one done by me last summer.
So whilst I would expect the diff to be in good nick considering the above, I would consider whilst the box was apart, an upgrade to a type B torsen if available, or possibly a used Quaife QDF28K, I really don't think I could justify the cost of a new one at £700, the reasoning I would consider a replacement diff is that I'm thinking that while opened up for bearing/s replacement, would it be false economy to retain it's type A diff on 77k?
Having said all that, it's now a semi retired car on a classic car policy and the last 3 years it's averaged about 500 miles P.A.......and driven gently as it is by me, would another alternative option be to fit a non torsen box, or perhaps the best option of all and one I'm leaning towards, would be a good nick 620 ti box, ideally one with steel cage bearings having been fitted already.
The car has no other issues of note or work needs doing, and is up to date maintenance wise, I've done everything on it since '97 when I bought it except cambelt changes (and the gearbox change at 70k, when it also had a new clutch fitted), it's had 3k fully synth oil changes, or annually if less than 3k driven, last year I did brake fluid, coolant, new water pump, oil change, gearbox oil change, exhaust cam cover gasket, throttle body clean, new distributor cap, air filter, boot struts,plus other stuff I can't bring to mind right now.It is also a rust free example, plenty of waxoyl over the years applied, the sills welded in usual places and well protected afterwards.Also the common failure of the NS anti roll bar bracket to chassis rail issue has been fixed and won't ever return on this car.
The lacquer on the bonnet is shot, the rest of the paintwork is pretty good.
So, as the required work is not a job within my capabilities, I now would greatly appreciate advice as to what to do next, and who would I get to do the work, obviously starting with a proper diagnosis, with an expert ear listening to the noise it makes.
I am in Farnborough Hampshire, the car is drivable, no issues apart from the gearbox noise, and there's no hurry to get it fixed.
If it's going to be mega expensive, I would consider selling it, but obviously after owning it almost 23 years, I am rather attached to it.
I would be also interested to hear opinions on what it's worth, hopefully this link will work (Facebook account required);
https://m.facebook.com/jonathan.brown.0 ... 464619201/
Many thanks for reading, and thanks in advance for any advice/ opinions.
Regarding my car, a '94 220 gsi turbo hatch, owned by me since May '97....
I think it may need a gearbox rebuild, as I'm getting noise from what I think is the diff bearing (torsen type A) or the input shaft bearing.This is not certain but it's what I suspect after discussing it with a trusted mechanic ( a VAG specialist, and he has not heard the noise btw ), and from me reading up about it on the web.
The noise has been occurring and worsening over the last 4 or 5 years, mileage wise that equates to 5k miles only of the box's 77k so far.
The symptoms are none other than noise...audible in gears 1 2 and 3 at low speeds....I'm sure it's in all gears but obviously in higher gears the car becomes noisier anyway so the noise as above is drowned out by road/engine noises.
It's like a metallic grinding noise, the best way I would describe it, is it sounds like a brake disc backing plate rubbing , but as above, I suspect a gearbox bearing, reason being, it occurs when in gear and driving, but stops if either the clutch pedal is depressed, or if the gearbox is put into neutral, ie coasting.
The box went in brand new when the car was at 70k, 12k miles after I bought the car, it's a short ratio box, I think a K4 not K7 as originally fitted...possibly intended for a Dunlop Cup car.It was the only one available at the time.It definitely has an X in the box code, which denotes a TorSen diff is fitted, the shorter ratios don't bother me I'm well used to them, but would prefer the original spec ratios.
The car is now on just under 147k.The box, on 77k, has had a very easy life,driven gently, mainly because after the diff broke on the original box, I learned about the weakness in the Torsen, so have tried to ensure this box lasted a very long time, which to be fair it has as regards the TorSen, but now has other issues as above.
The current box, fitted in July '98, was originally filled with mtf-94,and has had 3 oil changes over the years,all mtf-94,the last one done by me last summer.
So whilst I would expect the diff to be in good nick considering the above, I would consider whilst the box was apart, an upgrade to a type B torsen if available, or possibly a used Quaife QDF28K, I really don't think I could justify the cost of a new one at £700, the reasoning I would consider a replacement diff is that I'm thinking that while opened up for bearing/s replacement, would it be false economy to retain it's type A diff on 77k?
Having said all that, it's now a semi retired car on a classic car policy and the last 3 years it's averaged about 500 miles P.A.......and driven gently as it is by me, would another alternative option be to fit a non torsen box, or perhaps the best option of all and one I'm leaning towards, would be a good nick 620 ti box, ideally one with steel cage bearings having been fitted already.
The car has no other issues of note or work needs doing, and is up to date maintenance wise, I've done everything on it since '97 when I bought it except cambelt changes (and the gearbox change at 70k, when it also had a new clutch fitted), it's had 3k fully synth oil changes, or annually if less than 3k driven, last year I did brake fluid, coolant, new water pump, oil change, gearbox oil change, exhaust cam cover gasket, throttle body clean, new distributor cap, air filter, boot struts,plus other stuff I can't bring to mind right now.It is also a rust free example, plenty of waxoyl over the years applied, the sills welded in usual places and well protected afterwards.Also the common failure of the NS anti roll bar bracket to chassis rail issue has been fixed and won't ever return on this car.
The lacquer on the bonnet is shot, the rest of the paintwork is pretty good.
So, as the required work is not a job within my capabilities, I now would greatly appreciate advice as to what to do next, and who would I get to do the work, obviously starting with a proper diagnosis, with an expert ear listening to the noise it makes.
I am in Farnborough Hampshire, the car is drivable, no issues apart from the gearbox noise, and there's no hurry to get it fixed.
If it's going to be mega expensive, I would consider selling it, but obviously after owning it almost 23 years, I am rather attached to it.
I would be also interested to hear opinions on what it's worth, hopefully this link will work (Facebook account required);
https://m.facebook.com/jonathan.brown.0 ... 464619201/
Many thanks for reading, and thanks in advance for any advice/ opinions.
