Rover 200 & 400 Owners Club

Hi All

Well bad news, for me anyway, my HG has gone, boo,

But its not catastrophic. Its losing coolant slowly and is running down the front of the block under the head. It runs fine never overheats and I’ve got no water in the oil or visa versa. It’s been pressure tested at my local MG dealer (Family run Rover dealers way before MG went all Chinese and electric) The owner is a car guy (still sell TF’s and he has a Zt V8 and MG SV) and they’ve done hundreds of heads. But the dealer bill is now around £1100 if nothing else has failed, so it’s a DIY job for me as that’s more than the car is worth.

Now I've an restored old car and rebuilt a couple of engines so I’m happy enough to do it.

Plan is to do the HG with an MLS gasket, unless there is a liner issue. Get the head tested and skimmed if necessary, replace the water pump and all belts, but (probably) not the bolts or camshaft oil seals or valve stem oil seals or thermostat.

I’ve got my trusty Haines and a couple of guides off the net to help me along but if anyone has any recommendations on what to replace or tricks on how to do’s etc that would be great.

Cheers Bean

Dont use an MLS gasket, they are not always the best option. Can mess up compression (they are thicker) and liners do need to stand proud. They dont always on older engines, not an issue with the block, tis just the tolleances were not there on the earlier cars

Dont get it skimmed unless you really need to. just clean it up. Skimming removes material that can't be replaced. 9 times out of 10 they dont need it. CErtainly if its not overheated..

Id chekc its not the inlet manilfold gasket dripping and the coolant running round the head.

You need to tell us which engine you have 1600 or 1800?

Coolant running down the block is while the system is pressure tested? Or in other words satisfy yourself you don't have a leak from the rad' inlet manifold/water pump, or thermostat/pipe assembly, before removing the head.

From what I've seen & read there is a lot of conflicting advice around; measuring the liner heights is the start point!

Read 'The Rover K-Series 16V Engine' by Des Hammill he is a NewZealender and knows a lot about Rovers replacement engine programme and refurbished engines re-manufactured from warranty returns.

For example Matt Richardson [ Furious Driving YouTuber] had a H/G on his 200 Vi one or two years ago; he was advised not to fit a MLS gasket set. He took it to the NEC last year where it suffered another catastrophic failure. It wasn't the H/G second time around it was a problem with the thermostat housing.

I think the lesson here is either to be confident in your own abilities and do a lot of research first, or give the job to some one with a proven track record with K Series H/G/F!

ISBN 978-1-910241-27-1

Good Luck!

Edit:
Liner stand proud height should be 0.003" this is according to Des.

What engine do you have? I had quite a long thread a couple of years ago about HGF on our early 1990 214. There are some views on head gaskets etc. which might be helpful. See https://rover200.org.uk/forums/topic/15296. DMGRS has some advice on head gaskets too at https://www.dmgrs.co.uk/pages/choosing- ... gasket-kit . So far the HG repair has worked fine using a BGA gasket kit and bolts.

Hi All

Thanx for the replies. Yup i forgot to say its a 1.4 103 bhp in an 05 Streetwise.

In terms of the leak. There are witness marks of dried coolant and rust on the front of the block behind the Xhaust manifold and when its been run for a bit a slight wet run down the same area. Though i'll check the rest as best i can.

Was def going to measure the liner heights before finally deciding which HG to use but Rover dealer said liner probelms are very rare and unless there is an issue MLS is the best one to use and of course they have to guarantee their work.

I've read quiet a bit of the DMGRS articles but just just thinking someone my have done the job and have a few tips N tricks.

As i said i've done a nut and bolt rebuild on an engine and it works spot on, though that was just an old pushrod OHV so a bit simpler, but hey how dificult can it be and if i screw it up i'll just have to do it again

Cheers Bean

As already suggested, check the inlet manifold gasket - they're a known weak point, although coolant tends to run down the back of the engine rather than the front.

Don't get the head skimmed unless absolutely necessary; I would always replace the head bolts (don't forget you'll need a torx socket, E12 I think, and a cam locking tool), and it's probably worth replacing the cam seals etc while the head's off - if you buy a gasket kit they'll be included anyway. I also replaced the plastic dowels with steel ones - I read somewhere the metal ones locate the head more securely - less chance of future failure.

It's not a difficult job - if you take your time and work methodically it's fairly straightforward.

rjessett wrote: ↑Mon May 06, 2024 1:31 pm Dont use an MLS gasket, they are not always the best option. Can mess up compression (they are thicker) and liners do need to stand proud. They dont always on older engines, not an issue with the block, tis just the tolleances were not there on the earlier cars

Dont get it skimmed unless you really need to. just clean it up. Skimming removes material that can't be replaced. 9 times out of 10 they dont need it. CErtainly if its not overheated..

Id chekc its not the inlet manilfold gasket dripping and the coolant running round the head.

Rubbish the early engine which wasn't cast in house by Rover are way better than the later blocks

JOHNDQ wrote: ↑Fri May 10, 2024 5:29 pm

rjessett wrote: ↑Mon May 06, 2024 1:31 pm Dont use an MLS gasket, they are not always the best option. Can mess up compression (they are thicker) and liners do need to stand proud. They dont always on older engines, not an issue with the block, tis just the tolleances were not there on the earlier cars

Dont get it skimmed unless you really need to. just clean it up. Skimming removes material that can't be replaced. 9 times out of 10 they dont need it. CErtainly if its not overheated..

Id chekc its not the inlet manilfold gasket dripping and the coolant running round the head.

Rubbish the early engine which wasn't cast in house by Rover are way better than the later blocks

Thanks for the feedback, I could clairfy and say the earlier wet liner engines, rather than the earlier damp liner ones. Powertrain tigthened up the tolerances on the later engines to ready for the introduction of the MLS gasket.

Hi All

Well the engine is still running fine, though it does few miles and its losing very limited amount of coolant.

Been comparing prices between local Rover dealer (well Chinese MG, obvs) and DMGRS and both pretty much say if you fit a MLS gasket you need to fit the upgraded oil rail. In fact unless you fit one Rover (meaning Xpart I assume) won't provide a warranty for it.

So it seems the upgraded oil rail is pretty much integral to fitting an MLS gasket but as its at the bottom of the engine how difficult is it to change on my drive no ramp just axle stands.

Is it just sump off to get at it?

I assume its held in place by the head/block bolts

Cheers Bean

It’s downpipe and sump removal to replace. You’ll need some RTV sealant for the sump.

It’s held in place by two additional (8mm from memory) bolts, and you’ll have to remove the oil pick up as well, which is easy.

Also a good opportunity to clean out the inevitable sludge that’s collected inside the sump over the years.