Brake Master Cylinder

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RMS1974
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Location: Dumfries

Brake Master Cylinder

Post by RMS1974 »

Good morning, some advice & guidance please.

My brakes are stopping the car effectively enough, but the pedal is sinking slowly to the floor.

The system has been bled correctly twice, as per the manual, but still the same, there is no loss of fluid across system.

I'm guessing the Master cylinder must be passing.

I have searched the posts and found this picture which matches mine, the second picture is an ebay one which is 15/16 and the same flange orientation.

Any comments and suggestions much appreciated.

1993 Rover 216 Cabriolet, Honda engine, Nissan brake components.

Thanks & regards

Jim
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Mr Teddy Bear
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Re: Brake Master Cylinder

Post by Mr Teddy Bear »

Are the drums correctly adjusted? Has the whole system been flushed through? Old fluid especially down here in the S.W goes black within 3/4 years, irrespective of taking the lid off or not because of the humidity.

Just some thoughts, sorry if I'm teaching you to suck eggs! :)

Just spotted your in the North Of Scotland; I had my fluid changed last year and it cost 60/70 squid, my pedal sunk at first but firmed up with some use. Possibly the system is very difficult to purge. The local MG Rover guy who did mine used a vacuum system to pull the fluid through from the wheel stations. This is after syringing out the master cylinder which as I've mentioned was a black colour.
Teddy Bear

216 Sli SRS Charcoal Met 1996

214Si Silver? Tempest Grey 1993
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Johnny 216GSi
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Re: Brake Master Cylinder

Post by Johnny 216GSi »

Also note - the last time I saw a round brake fluid reservoir was on a 216GSi with ABS. The (presumably more capable) master cylinder for ABS-equipped R8s (at least to 1992/93) came with the round reservoir, non-ABS cars had a very rounded-off rectangular reservoir with the cap at one end.

Does your car have ABS? I'm only asking because if you're shopping for a new master cylinder, you'll have to check to make sure you get the right part.
Rover 216GSi K reg. Flame Red over Tempest Grey

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RMS1974
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Location: Dumfries

Re: Brake Master Cylinder

Post by RMS1974 »

Hi both, thanks for comments.

It’s disc’s all round, the system hasn’t been flushed through or vacuumed out just bled until no air & does look fairly clean when pulled through.

I’ll consider that as an additional job, I’m inclined to want to change the Master as a matter of course, it’s a bit of confirmation as to parts that I’m seeking.

It is an ABS unit, that is another story!

I have a replacement pump & motor ready to swap out when the club owned “special” kit becomes available.
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Mr Teddy Bear
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Re: Brake Master Cylinder

Post by Mr Teddy Bear »

Jim you *don't* have a Bosch ABS system as the car has a Honda engine! It's the dreaded and obsolete Honda ALB system!

You need to talk to John B about this because as a ex Rover suspension & braking engineer he knows all about it. He I believe has sourced a piece of kit necessary to bleed/flush the ALB system. You really need to talk to him :D

It's very important to avoid any confusion to refer to this system as ALB and not the more common ABS!
Teddy Bear

216 Sli SRS Charcoal Met 1996

214Si Silver? Tempest Grey 1993
RMS1974
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Posts: 59
Joined: Wed Feb 15, 2023 1:19 pm
Location: Dumfries

Re: Brake Master Cylinder

Post by RMS1974 »

Hi Mr.Teddy Bear, thanks for the heads up.

Fortunately I am fully aware of the system on my car, when I got it it I inherited the issue with the ABS, and I have all the parts to refurbish the ABS system, pump, motor & block should that prove necessary, I am on the "list" for the bleeding kit.

When I posted, I commented that I had the Honda/Nissin system, although spell checker changed it to Nissan!

Again thanks for the input.

Jim
RMS1974
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Posts: 59
Joined: Wed Feb 15, 2023 1:19 pm
Location: Dumfries

Re: Brake Master Cylinder

Post by RMS1974 »

Good afternoon all,

I am about to set some time aside to work on the braking system, including the dreaded ABS!

However, before that I want to change the master, I have found this, I know its not the branded Nissin 15/16 as fitted (23.81 being the equivalent) but look's identical, flange orientation wise, ports etc.

I would just have to swap the reservoir, any thoughts as to suitability ?

It would save £100 to go towards the upkeep.

Cheers

Jim

NEW LOCKHEED BRAKE MASTER CYLINDER - LM80159

(23.81mm bore) to fit

ROVER 418D, 418TD 420GSi, SLi, GTi, Vitesse (4/90-4/95) XW 2 types see picture

ROVER 400 Tourer1.6i, 2.0i, 1.8TD (9/93-11/98) XW 2 types see picture

ROVER 414 Si, 416 SiHatchback (5/95-3/00) RT 2 types see picture

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RMS1974
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Location: Dumfries

Re: Brake Master Cylinder

Post by RMS1974 »

Hi, just reviewing the post and have just noticed the front connection is angled upwards and the rear horizontal, should all other elements be ok it would be "just" a case of realigning the relevant pipework??
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Johnny 216GSi
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Re: Brake Master Cylinder

Post by Johnny 216GSi »

RMS1974 wrote: Thu Jan 18, 2024 3:07 pm Hi, just reviewing the post and have just noticed the front connection is angled upwards and the rear horizontal, should all other elements be ok it would be "just" a case of realigning the relevant pipework??

This item says it's for 216 hatchbacks from 1989 to 1995, with ABS:

https://www.autodoc.co.uk/abs/7715554

However, it does look like the reservoir fitting is for the smaller, oval shaped reservoir rather than yours.

One way to tackle this is to get in close on your cylinder and make as many notes or take as many photographs as you can of any detail on the cylinder itself that would help identify the manufacturer's part number. Any digits, text, other stamps in the metal, etc. and then start contacting the eBay sellers that have things that look right and ask them for a list of markings or more detailed photographs of their parts, and see if you can get a match. It could be that your part was fitted to other Rover vehicles, or other manufacturer's vehicles full stop. It's a pity more eBay sellers don't show this forensic level of detail, as I'm sure they'd get more people confidently buying what they have for sale.
Rover 216GSi K reg. Flame Red over Tempest Grey

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RMS1974
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Posts: 59
Joined: Wed Feb 15, 2023 1:19 pm
Location: Dumfries

Re: Brake Master Cylinder

Post by RMS1974 »

Hi, thanks for your reply and link.

I followed it and the part and unless I'm missing something is very different to mine, I also put my reg in and it brought up that part

Mine is on the blue mat.

Thanks & regards

Jim
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