I'm 95% sure that it isn't sticking valves so I wouldn't go back to that garage. Sticking valves would give lumpy running without any sparks. I used to have one on our old 200 but it wasn't a serious problem.
Check the rotor arm to make sure it isn't rotating on the shaft it is bolted to. If it is this could give the misfire you observe.
I'll have a think and try and post some things to check when I get home tonight.
My car problems.
Hi, sticking valves sounds strange! Have a compression test done by a garage, this will show up any cylinder head or gasket problems. I know its a daft one but have you checked the plugs for hairline cracks etc, etc....! It's often the most obvious things we forget eh! As you say it happens when warmed up so the plugs are hot and expanded. Are their seals intact and ok. I think I would go down this avenue, maybe change them then trace backwards through plug leads to dizzy to coil to ECU to/from sensors, air, fuel, water temp sensors etc... It will be probably something really daft in the end. NOT STICKING VALVES. But, having said that get some UCL, Redex or the like and squirt some into plug holes and leave overnight. Re-fit plugs and fire her up. You'll get clouds of smoke & stuff from exhaust. If it starts fine its not sticking valves! THEN, give it a blast if possible @ 50mph + in 3rd gear for a few good miles. Good luck, Dave W
Badgers Walk 79
E_T_V wrote:Check the rotor arm to make sure it isn't rotating on the shaft it is bolted to. If it is this could give the misfire you observe.
How do i do this?
David W wrote:Hi, sticking valves sounds strange! Have a compression test done by a garage, this will show up any cylinder head or gasket problems. I know its a daft one but have you checked the plugs for hairline cracks etc, etc....! It's often the most obvious things we forget eh! As you say it happens when warmed up so the plugs are hot and expanded. Are their seals intact and ok. I think I would go down this avenue, maybe change them then trace backwards through plug leads to dizzy to coil to ECU to/from sensors, air, fuel, water temp sensors etc... It will be probably something really daft in the end. NOT STICKING VALVES. But, having said that get some UCL, Redex or the like and squirt some into plug holes and leave overnight. Re-fit plugs and fire her up. You'll get clouds of smoke & stuff from exhaust. If it starts fine its not sticking valves! THEN, give it a blast if possible @ 50mph + in 3rd gear for a few good miles. Good luck, Dave W
The plugs, leads, dizzy and rotor arm are all new. It does the same with what ever i change. Redex, the petrol treatment stuff? Should i just tip the bottle upside down in the plug hole and give it a good squeze or do it with a syringe with just a few drops per hole. Dave, i take it that this Redex thing is an old trick to tell you if your valves are sticking or not? What else will it tell me, if anything?
I mean £750 the price that garage wants is what i could use to by a used Merc or BMW.
Honestly what i think is that i should just get rid of it and save my money for something else, something German
But ill never get back half of what ive already spent on it so whats the point
Im fed up, annoyed and very tired. Ive no mechanical knowledge which just adds to the stress of owning this car and .......... i dont know
help!
Sticking valves is usually a problem on the older cars which only hare driven short distances, i.e. they don't wam up properly. Symptoms are a regular misfire from a cold start which usually goes away once the engine warms up. You car started and idled perfectly from cold last weekend so I'm pretty sure you can rule this out as a cause.
(You may want to check the front tie-rod bushes but I'll mention that when you've sorted the other problems).
To check the rotor arm:
Note which connection on the distributor cap is connected to number 1 spark plug. (pulley end of engine).
remove distributor cap
Check that rotor arm is firmly bolted to the end of the camshaft and that it can't easily rotate back and forth
Remove spark plug from no.1. cylinder
Insert a long rod through the spark plug hole so that it rests on the top of the piston and sticks out of the cylidner head.
Rotate the engine slowly until the piston is at the top of its stroke.
Note the position of the rotor arm. If it is 180 degrees away from where the number 1 lead fits on the distributor cap then turn the engine over again a full revolution.
With the piston at the top of its travel the rotor arm should be directly over or slightly past the pin on the distributor cap for number 1 spark plug. If it isn't then either the rotor arm is spinning on the cap or somehow the insert for the cam is located wrongly.
If the rotor arm isn't pointing to the appropriate cap lead then the spark will take the easiest path it can to earth which may not be through the spark plug and would explain the sparking coil etc.
It is also possible that the cam timing is wrong but from the sound of the engine at the weekend it sounded normal.
(You may want to check the front tie-rod bushes but I'll mention that when you've sorted the other problems).
To check the rotor arm:
Note which connection on the distributor cap is connected to number 1 spark plug. (pulley end of engine).
remove distributor cap
Check that rotor arm is firmly bolted to the end of the camshaft and that it can't easily rotate back and forth
Remove spark plug from no.1. cylinder
Insert a long rod through the spark plug hole so that it rests on the top of the piston and sticks out of the cylidner head.
Rotate the engine slowly until the piston is at the top of its stroke.
Note the position of the rotor arm. If it is 180 degrees away from where the number 1 lead fits on the distributor cap then turn the engine over again a full revolution.
With the piston at the top of its travel the rotor arm should be directly over or slightly past the pin on the distributor cap for number 1 spark plug. If it isn't then either the rotor arm is spinning on the cap or somehow the insert for the cam is located wrongly.
If the rotor arm isn't pointing to the appropriate cap lead then the spark will take the easiest path it can to earth which may not be through the spark plug and would explain the sparking coil etc.
It is also possible that the cam timing is wrong but from the sound of the engine at the weekend it sounded normal.
Hi, don't get too down, it will be a simple thing to sort. Redex, (upper cylinder lubricant) UCL, is a petrol additive that prevents carbon deposits building up in the head and jam up a valve or two causing things like sticking valves & pre-ignition, (pinking).
Add to each pot a tablespoon of the Redex and replace plugs. DO NOT START OR CRANK OVER. Leave overnight then spark her up, you'll have to maintain 2000-3000 rpm for a few minutes until the cloud of smoke goes away, then just drive 50+ mph in 3rd gear for a few miles. You should feel a lot of hesitation for a bit but once cylinder head is cleaned it should run normally without your probs, hopefully! Yes, its an old trick but has always worked, believe me! I have been running driving schools for 40 + years and because of the very nature of learner drivers driving slowly we have to opt for redex treatment in the fuel each fill-up as speed is usually town driving and the engines can "clog up" causing misfires and such. The ECU's are programmed for normal driving! I can't remember the last time I had a problem, sometime in the 60's I think, a Vauxhall Viva HA! That proves my point eh! My Rover 214 GSi K reg was having the same problem as you after sitting around for 3 months. I did the Redex treatment as I mentioned above and no probs since. I give a few squirts per gallon of fuel now for preventative reasons as I only drive 3 miles each day to work. Perhaps you could buy the Redex then put the balance in a squirty bottle, (fairy liquid) empty container and squirt some in when you fill up. Another trick is take out the airfilter and "thrash it" on the motorway then replace filter. Another thought, are you sure the new plugs haven't been dropped at some time before you bought them?
If, as previously suggested the fuel pump had packed up, it wouldn't run at all so that's unlikely. When you turn on the ignition you can hear the pump "click" in & resonate continually behind you.
DON'T GO GERMAN, be patriotic and fly the Union flag! Good luck, Dave
Add to each pot a tablespoon of the Redex and replace plugs. DO NOT START OR CRANK OVER. Leave overnight then spark her up, you'll have to maintain 2000-3000 rpm for a few minutes until the cloud of smoke goes away, then just drive 50+ mph in 3rd gear for a few miles. You should feel a lot of hesitation for a bit but once cylinder head is cleaned it should run normally without your probs, hopefully! Yes, its an old trick but has always worked, believe me! I have been running driving schools for 40 + years and because of the very nature of learner drivers driving slowly we have to opt for redex treatment in the fuel each fill-up as speed is usually town driving and the engines can "clog up" causing misfires and such. The ECU's are programmed for normal driving! I can't remember the last time I had a problem, sometime in the 60's I think, a Vauxhall Viva HA! That proves my point eh! My Rover 214 GSi K reg was having the same problem as you after sitting around for 3 months. I did the Redex treatment as I mentioned above and no probs since. I give a few squirts per gallon of fuel now for preventative reasons as I only drive 3 miles each day to work. Perhaps you could buy the Redex then put the balance in a squirty bottle, (fairy liquid) empty container and squirt some in when you fill up. Another trick is take out the airfilter and "thrash it" on the motorway then replace filter. Another thought, are you sure the new plugs haven't been dropped at some time before you bought them?
If, as previously suggested the fuel pump had packed up, it wouldn't run at all so that's unlikely. When you turn on the ignition you can hear the pump "click" in & resonate continually behind you.
DON'T GO GERMAN, be patriotic and fly the Union flag! Good luck, Dave
Badgers Walk 79
A PS. Last year I had my garage take off the head after a compression test proved a faulty head gasket after I'd noticed a drop of oil in water & vice versa. Gunge in header tank! The temp gauge never went above 3/4 hot so I saved having the head being skimmed. I had the timing belt changed at the same time. The TOTAL price inclusive of labour, parts & VAT was £200.00 SO, if your garage is bonefide how on earth do they arrive at £600 plus VAT? What I am trying to say is don't be conned by the trade con trick that all Rovers have this "head gasket problem"! It's their TRUMP card! It's their pennies for a pint or two!
Trust me, do the Redex treatment. If this doesn't cure then you must consider the ECU but this is unlikely but try "earthing" it from the battery -neg terminal. ALSO check the HT lead from the coil situated in the nearside front wheel arch close to the front cross member. Make sure clean and a good contact. Finally the earth wire leading from the top right front cross member, these can break off and cause intermittent faults. AND, if all else fails, get out the WD40 & spray everything.
Trust me, do the Redex treatment. If this doesn't cure then you must consider the ECU but this is unlikely but try "earthing" it from the battery -neg terminal. ALSO check the HT lead from the coil situated in the nearside front wheel arch close to the front cross member. Make sure clean and a good contact. Finally the earth wire leading from the top right front cross member, these can break off and cause intermittent faults. AND, if all else fails, get out the WD40 & spray everything.
Badgers Walk 79
ok ermmmmm i understand the redex petrol treatment thing. stick a table spoon into each plug hole, leave overnight and fire her up.
Dan i was fine up untill "Insert a long rod through the spark plug hole so that it rests on the top of the piston and sticks out of the cylidner head. Rotate the engine slowly until the piston is at the top of its stroke."
l0l what? l0l
Dan i was fine up untill "Insert a long rod through the spark plug hole so that it rests on the top of the piston and sticks out of the cylidner head. Rotate the engine slowly until the piston is at the top of its stroke."
l0l what? l0l
